What was behind Daniel Ricciardo’s shock decsion to quit Red Bull, the team he has been part of for 11 years, and throw his lot in with Renault?
Was it a creeping sense that in Max Verstappen, Red Bull has a new favourite son? Did Ricciardo see himself as becoming the Mark Webber to Verstappen’s Sebastian Vettel?Formula 1 by winning his first race for the team.
Ricciardo has consistently out-scored his team mate. Over the opening races of this season, when at times Verstappen couldn’t get through a weekend without getting caught up in some scrape or other, Ricciardo racked up the points and looked like a potential title contender until a string of technical problems did for him.
There was one other costly loss of points, of course: Baku, where Ricciardo went up the back of Verstappen’s car while trying to overtake him, taking both out. Red Bull were quick to tell the media they considered the pair equally responsible for the incident – pre-empting the stewards’ investigation which, unsurprisingly, stuck to the same interpretation.
But Ricciardo cannot have been happy with how hard Red Bull allowed Verstappen to race him in the laps leading up to the collision, including a wheel-banging incident which could have put both out of the race. At the time of the final collision he’d already passed Verstappen once and had good cause to feel frustrated the team were leaving him to do it again after an unfortunately timed pit stop had put Verstappen back in front of him.
Then there was the qualifying incident at the Red Bull Ring. This odd squabble over which driver should have the benefit of running in the slipstream of the other appeared to originate entirely with Ricciardo. But the fact he chose to make a point of it, and turn it into an issue on the track, suggested something was up.
By then Red Bull had already announced their impending switch to Honda power for next season. Ricciardo arrived at Red Bull in 2014 just in time to miss the team’s multiple world championship-winning Renault V8 and be lumbered with Renault’s far less competitive V6 hybrid turbo. Yet he clearly fancies sticking with that more than using a Honda which on its best days seems only as good as the Renault.
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There’s more to it than that, however. Renault is a factory-backed team, and drivers understand the value of that alignment in the current era of manufacturer dominance.
Ricciardo has been fielding questions about his coming decision for months. After the Honda deal was announced, he gave this insightful assessment of the merits of moving to a team such as Renault. He compared it to Lewis Hamilton’s 2012 decision to join Mercedes – a call which, in retrospect, was indisputably a masterstroke:
“McLaren and Renault aren’t there today but maybe they will be there in a year or three years’ time. You never really know. Lewis pulled the trigger pretty well, whether he fluked it… he says that he really knew what was going to happen, I don’t know.
“Whether he fluked it or not obviously he’s done well for himself with that move. Whether it’s just a fantasy for everyone else I don’t know but at least there’s a little bit of proof that something like that could potentially happen again.”
With doors closed at Mercedes and Ferrari deciding between Charles Leclerc and Kimi Raikkonen, for Ricciardo the decision boiled down to Renault versus Honda.
“I think it’s fair to say they’re both on the up,” he said. “It’s just who’s going to get there quicker, that’s the unknown.”
“Obviously Red Bull believe Honda’s the right ones.” And equally obviously, Ricciardo does not.
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Quotes: Dieter Rencken
2018 F1 season
- Honda’s jet division helped F1 engineers solve power unit problem
- McLaren Racing losses rise after Honda split
- Ricciardo: Baku “s***show” was Red Bull’s fault
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182 comments on “Is Ricciardo trying to ‘do a Lewis’ – or just get away from Max?”
4th August 2018, 9:00
I quite like Renault in F1 and they’ve had some deserved successes. But putting so much credit for the 2010-14 on Renault is too flattering. Those were the days of the equalisation rules; Renault received free lien every year to catch up with Mercedes and Ferrari who were constantly technically ahead.
I’m glad those days are over. The PU is an important part of a F1 team; they are even pay of the official entry name. Success should be earned through good independent technical development; not through freebies from FIA.
4th August 2018, 10:51
SO you’re just going to ignore the exhaust blown diffuser that Renault perfected and made it so no other team could touch the Red Bull?
4th August 2018, 13:47
Quite the opposite @name! That is exactly what I mean.
Where Ferrari/Mercedes were stronger (HP) Renault was allowed to equalise. But where renault was better/smarter (blown diffuser) the rest had to catch up on their own strengths, whereas Renault was allowed to develop further.
IMO the PU equalisation period in F1 was not a ‘may the best win’ period; glad it’s gone.
5th August 2018, 2:00
The exhaust blown diffuser is in the car. Not in the engine. The red bull chassis was the best using the exhaust gasses for downforce.
5th August 2018, 12:19
True but it was the engine trickery that created the dense fuel-loaded exhaust to give the diffuser the effective oomph (technical term). Don’t you remember the machine gun rattle as the Redbulls entered a corner?
5th August 2018, 14:33
Yeah but Renault had by far the best engine mapping to make it work.
5th August 2018, 15:51
Blown diffuser is mainly aerodynamic, but in order to get most of it, you need to develop engine mapping as well. Renault was best in developing the “hot blowing”. Simplified, hot blowing means firing engine even on braking, but timing the spark in a way that it develops as little power as possible, while still exhaust pipe air flow.
4th August 2018, 11:12
@coldfly, Mercedes and Ferrari were ahead in some ways, but in some other areas Renault was the one that was ahead of Ferrari and Mercedes – in terms of heat rejection and operating temperatures, there were components on Renault’s engine that could withstand slightly higher operating temperatures and therefore required slightly less cooling.
Mercedes and Ferrari might have had a slight power edge – although considerably less than Horner falsely claimed – but that also came with a fuel consumption penalty, with Renault’s engine being slightly more fuel efficient. I believe that Newey was cited as saying that, when it came to his particular design philosophy, the Renault engine was his preferred package overall because there were advantages in terms of packaging, cooling requirements and so forth that lent themselves better to his philosophy.
If anything, there is an argument that the Ferrari V8 was the weakest package overall in those years – there was a paper by the University of Cologne that suggested the Ferrari V8 only produced 5bhp more than the Renault V8 whilst having the highest fuel consumption in the field, with the increased fuel consumption outweighing the benefits of the slight power advantage.
Guybrush Threepwood (@guybrushthreepwood)
5th August 2018, 12:18
No, what you are saying is trollop I’m afraid. Even Newey says in his book that the Renault was consistently 5% down on HP in the V8 era.
4th August 2018, 20:55
Hamilton said another team approached him whilst he was uncommited. I wonder if that team was Renault, and if Riccardo was their second choice? Just a thought, but if they believe they have new tech which can challenged for places it would make sense to seek out the best drivers to capitalise on that next big thing.
6th August 2018, 3:36
He is loser and lier. He can cheat only his dog to be with him but tempory if course. Once he changes his voice again, put additiinal tattoes, neither dog would be able to recognize him.
6th August 2018, 7:33
Such bile. Why so bitter?
6th August 2018, 7:36
6th August 2018, 19:43
Incoherence and Bigotry. Two bitter tastes often found together.
4th August 2018, 9:09
“Is Ricciardo trying to ‘do a Lewis’ – or just get away from Max?” correct me if I’m wrong but isn’t Daniel leading Max in the championship at the moment, and last season as well. With more wins and more points it seems he wouldn’t need to “get away” from Max, he seems to be at least a match for him so far.
Chris Lloyd (@chrisr1718)
4th August 2018, 9:42
What is meant by “get away from Max” is that MV is the favoured one with Red Bull, not DR, and no matter what DR does, out qualifies, more points etc. won’t mean anything to the Helmut Marko. He loves Max!
Also, which we don’t know, if DR wasn’t offered as good a contract as MV has, that effectively makes him the number 2 driver, even the he continues to outperform MV at every level.
4th August 2018, 10:31
@chrisr1718 yeah, Daniel’s new contract was probably lower than Max’s. Unfortunately he didn’t have as much negotiating power because there were no open spots at Ferrari and Mercedes.
I can’t see Daniel wanting to race for less money than a 20 year old and that might have forced Daniel to go to another team.
4th August 2018, 11:24
@freelittlebirds, I wonder if Red Bull took a harder negotiating stance because of what happened with Verstappen’s contract negotiations though.
Lauda is said to have told Marko – seemingly with considerable glee – that Verstappen tricked him into heavily overpaying for him in the last contract negotiations because Verstappen fooled Marko into thinking that Mercedes were much more interested in signing Verstappen when it seems they had no interest in him.
In turn, it was suggested that, having been fooled once, Marko was taking a much harder stance to show that he wouldn’t be fooled again – but it looks like he went too far the other way and seemed to underestimate how interested Renault really were in Ricciardo.
If that is the case, then Red Bull have botched both sets of negotiations – overbidding for Verstappen’s services by falling for his deception and bidding against a team that weren’t interested in the first place, then going the other way and underestimating the interest in Ricciardo from other teams and overestimating how keen he’d be to stay with them.
4th August 2018, 12:49
Lauda has since admitted that story is nonsense and that they did make a firm offer for Verstappen last year. Odd how that doesn’t fit your narrative though.
4th August 2018, 18:24
@hahostolze, whilst Lauda has said that there were talks, he doesn’t mention that a firm offer was made to Verstappen – it’s the journalists who have reported on the story who seem to have then assumed that an offer was made, and hence how they reported it, rather than Lauda himself saying that.
4th August 2018, 18:46
You seem to miss the point. The lauda story wad total nonsense and the base for your fantasy. So….
4th August 2018, 17:28
VER has consistently shown more potential than RIC – and he knows it. Qualifying results and race pace statistics are clear on that.
RIC has more points than VER, true, but that is down to reckless driving from VER (which he can learn from) and technical failures, both of which are ‘fixable’. Purely speedwise, I don’t think anyone really favours RIC except die hard VER haters.
I think RIC fancies his changes of becoming WDC more with Renault for the simple reason that IF his team manages to produce a winning car, he can be confident of beating his teammate there. At RB, not so much.
Either that or Renault simply outbid RB financially by such a considerable margin he couldnt say no. And who could blame him for that.
4th August 2018, 22:16
Chris Lloyd…DR outperforms MV at every level…..Really? Which driver has won more races based on merit, rather than a leader dropout? I believe that Max wins that contest without a doubt.
4th August 2018, 22:50
Chris Lloyd…..DR outperforms MV at every level……really? Which driver has won more races based on merit, rather than when a leader drops out. I believe that Max win’s that contest, without a doubt.
5th August 2018, 0:11
Which driver has won more races based on merit, rather than when a leader drops out. – That would be Ric. MV only won when front runners retired or had to go to the pits bc of damage. You also had Mal ’17, in which Ham chose to let MV go in order to secure his 4th WDC. Now have a look at DR: HUN’14, CHN’18 and MON’18. Also don’t forget about MON’16 which was his until.. Sure, having lady luck at your side with SC’s helped him, but how else could one win ‘on merit’ with the RB in those years?
I believe that Max win’s that contest, without a doubt. – Yes, I believe you when you say that you believe so. But bare in mind you don’t see the world as it is, bc you’re tainted with orange glasses.
5th August 2018, 1:11
I hope this works out well for Dan, he does need to be in a factory team as a number one driver (as much as l like Nico) l hope he can also get few engs/ tech people to go with him and build a front row team.
If he beats Max again this year which l believe he will, he will leave RB as their unbeaten driver in the current era..a huge achievement considering he was never treated as a number 1
6th August 2018, 3:44
$$$$$You seem to miss the point. The lauda story wad total nonsense and the base for your fantasy. $$$$
Stop submitting a nasty pieces of work an your imagination. Accept the truth.
Listen and read carefully information given by higher ranking and more informed people.
4th August 2018, 19:24
It doesn’t matter. Verstappen is obviously faster than him. And quite a bit younger too.
5th August 2018, 10:14
And reckless and not a complete F1 driver
5th August 2018, 14:53
He is about 0.15 faster in quali, yet slower in the race, when it matters more. You, are obviously orange dutch.
5th August 2018, 18:50
Nope, look at the stats.. almost every race he is faster then RIC and in front of him to be truly honest. Like the last race, VER was way better till his engine gave up.
There must be something wrong with your glasses… do you wear them down under perhaps?
4th August 2018, 20:58
Riccardo must believe Renault will fair better than Red Bull, eg they can challenge for third position behind the current leaders.
He must have an idea what’s on the horizon for Red Bull and fancies his chances with Renault for that reason.
5th August 2018, 4:57
Redbull can look forward to 1 to 3 years in 3rd so WDC wouldn’t be in play for Dan in the medium term. So he’d racing for fluke or slow track podiums & against his teammate only. He has and would likely continue to lead Max in WDC tally – the premium measure – but he’s paired with a talented kamikaze who would likely continue to edge him in qually leaving room for argument in the head to head and of course a chance at a better seat next time one comes up (not soon).
5th August 2018, 22:24
I’ve never understood why people put such emphasis on qualifying, I really don’t. You get points on Sunday, not Saturday and when you’re talking .1 or .2 seconds over ONE LAP, it really is quite irrelevant.
Ricciardo has constantly shown that he’s a better bet than Verstappen and is STILL leading Verstappen in the points this year despite the HUGE number of technical retirements Ricciardo has suffered this year compared to his over rated team mate.
RedBull’s loss, Renault and Ricciardo’s win as far as I’m concerned.
6th August 2018, 3:59
Red bull’s loss without a doubt, ricciardo is one of the top current drivers, they will never get a driver as good as him as replacement this year, renault’s win without a doubt, but I’m gonna say ricciardo’s loss, he’s going to a team 1,4 sec slower, that’s a lot, even if they improve, and will they?
4th August 2018, 9:25
I do think Danny made the right decision. Bit of a gamble, yes, but Renault were always ambitious as a works team and they are going to get to a title eventually, the question is how fast. They’re in for the long run and they don’t threaten every other Thursday to abandon F1. Red Bull are in a weird situation right now. With this Aston Martin rubbish making the rounds (what Aston Martin, is there really such a brand?) they don’t have a clear strategy for the future, although Honda is def going to get better (and I’m pretty sure they’ll have a works team really soon, maybe by buying out someone small or just start from scratch). So yes, Renault is a wise choice. I can only feel for Nico Hulkenberg though, whom no-one writes about surprisingly in connection to that transfer. It means he’s going to end his career as a nr.2 driver and probably won’t have a chance to taste the sweet bubbly. If I were him, I’d go to Haas.
4th August 2018, 12:10
I think the opposite regarding Hulkenberg. Like you say he’s at a works team (the reason Ricciardo has gone there) going to Haas would make no sense, and there is nothing to suggest that Ricciardo is going to come in a beat him.
Hulkenberg has a very good record against his team mates, plus the weight limit change next year will benefit him. Think it’s going to be an exciting battle between them, possibly the best driver partnership on the grid next year
Rhys Lloyd (@justrhysism)
4th August 2018, 14:57
Yeah I’m excited to see how the hulk compares. I believe that he’s an underrated driver, but if he keeps Danny on his toes, his stock will go up massively.
As a Aussie, I’m naturally a Ric fan – but have always liked Hulkenberg. Pretty keen to see how it plays out.
Caroline Geddes (@lass321)
4th August 2018, 16:35
I’m a Hamilton fan, but I really like both Ricciardo and Hulkenberg. Both guys are pleasant, courteous and funny. They are also both amazingly talented. I have everything crossed for this to work for Dan :), and with this driver pairing I can see no reason why Renault can’t be a force to be reckoned with in a year or two.
4th August 2018, 17:44
@burden93 Agreed. I’ve seen a few sources claim that DR is the de-facto #1 at Renault. I’m not so sure. Hulk has a very positive record against all of his team mates, with the exception of Perez who he had a similar pace to.
However, this perfectly coincided with the 2014 regs, which as we know, led to most of the drivers effectively starving themselves to reduce their weight. Nico is one of the heaviest (ie. normal) racing drivers, so this period was particularly difficult for him.
The new separated car/driver weights for next season will finally reduce the penalty of a heavy driver some more. It’s still a disadvantage, but a much smaller one.
I think Nico could spring a surprise.
5th August 2018, 22:28
I REALLY like the Hulk, but let’s be honest, Dan is probably going to give him a hiding. I really hope not, but I’m pretty sure that’s what’s going to happen. But the good think is that if the car improves and Dan really starts pushing them, it will drag the Hulk along too and I’m sure this will mean that we’ll see the Hulk finally get that podium!
I love this pairing and hope that bringing Dan on board pushes both the team and the Hulk!
4th August 2018, 9:33
Let’s face it. Even this year, if he was driving for Renault, Dan would more often than not be just 1 place behind where he is now at most tracks (Monaco & Singapore excepted)
If Renault can improve their chassis for next year (and you never know they might actually do something about their PU now RBR has gone), he’s likely to be racing closer to where the RBR cars are, if not in front of them.
There’s very little downside, he’s been perfectly clear that he wants to be racing for a WDC . The current two teams with contenders are a closed shop and unless Honda do something they haven’t done for decades, I’d suggest that Renault is the only team that is likely to be able to close that gap over the next few years.
The pressure is now on Renault, his signing can’t have been cheap. Now they have to justify that to their accountants to get sign off on an even bigger budget to move forward. I’m sure some of that “future planning” has been discussed with Dan during negotiations – I’m expecting more Renault news as this season progresses.l
4th August 2018, 9:34
From my observation, Verstappen seems to be generally faster than Ricciardo, but Ricciardo is more complete, I’d say the most complete driver in F1 currently. Who knows if that will change for Verstappen as he ages and becomes more experienced.
Consider that Alonso is thought by many to have been his best in 2012, age 31 – Ricciardo is 29 now. In that sense, this move is similar to Alonso’s move to Ferrari in 2010 (except Alonso left Renault, and had 2 championships).
If this doesn’t work out for Ricciardo then does his career risk ending in the same way Alonso’s is ending now? This has happened to many top drivers over the years.
Hülkenberg is 31 in August. It’s a similar problem for him, except he’s never been able to get into a top team. Theoretically he should be able to benefit from a winning Renault too, but is stuck with little other options.
4th August 2018, 9:51
Ricciardo is some way from being the most complete driver on the grid, in fact his recent record suggests the opposite – he lacks a smidgen of one lap pace vs the very fastest drivers and this would be true vs Vettel and especially Hamilton, both of whom have put together multiple title winning performances over multiple seasons. The likely reality for Ricciardo is once Verstappen has this season behind him, the expectation is Max would capitalise on his one lap pace advantage, when combined with improved reliability that would translate to him consistently beating Ricciardo because he will more often than not start races ahead. I think this is as much a reason for Ricciardo to change teams, as anything else it’s a brave move and I hope it pays off to 2020 and beyond.
I find it remarkable that people can make these assertions when the evidence is in front of our eyes!
harold wilson (@bonbonjai)
4th August 2018, 10:07
Just to be absolutely sure, I double checked the driver standings for 2017 & this year. Riccardio finished ahead of Vesthappen in the point total last year, and is also ahead this year. So the idea that Vesthappen is the better driver, at least, when it comes to delivering point (which is what matters) is simply not true. Granted, Vesthappen is the more aggressive driver, is younger, so has more room to mature and grow, but Ricciardo is the more complete package right now. Is his move to Renault a risk, of course, but will Red Bull Honda to be so far ahead of Renault next year? I see no evidence of that. Maybe because of their chasis and aero, by 1 or 2 places on the grid but not more than that. If that is the case it is risk I feel he can take.
4th August 2018, 11:03
Max is fast but not always gets the job done
Ricciardo is not so fast (according to some), but consistent, steady and always gets the job done.
If F1 was a woman i know which one she would choose
4th August 2018, 20:03
@bon-bonjai My comment was focussed on the future and not what has happened to date. I am not disputing the current situation we are all aware of Ricciardo’s consistency vs Verstappen over the last 18months. This move is about creating a future as a team’s lead driver for Ricciardo, at Red Bull Verstappen is the faster driver by a touch, as consistency builds in Max that will translate to results and a foothold over Ricciardo, again for clarity, forget what has happened so far and think about the future over the next 2-3 seasons.
5th August 2018, 12:30
Do you really think Ricciardo can’t take any single corner or a series of them or an entire lap at exactly the same speed as Verstappen? He doesn’t always because his butt tells him it’s too risky. The only way for Verstappen to “mature” is for him to (get sick of binning it and) slow down.
To clear my own head on this – I don’t mind that he chooses this, I just hate his dangerous defensive tactics when someone else is faster than him. It’s not good driving and it isn’t even good entertainment.
David BR (@david-br)
4th August 2018, 12:01
@ju88sy That’s my assessment too and indeed already seems to be happening since Monaco, excluding the mechanical issues. Verstappen and Hamilton are more or less in the same bracket as aggressive, talented racers and fast. Verstappen has also learned to dial down the aggression to put in solid races when need be too. Ricciardo is almost as fast and certainly is a brilliant overtaker, most of the time. But that little bit of speed deficit to Verstappen means exactly that: more often qualifying second and being less and less able to count on Verstappen making mistakes for him to finish higher in the race. That’s tough given Ricciardo is probably in the top six proven drivers at present, maybe as high as third. So moving to another team makes a lot of sense. Obviously the unknown is whether Renault can deliver and equal or better car over the next couple of years.
4th August 2018, 20:05
@david-br Thanks, that is nicely put and my thought exactly, not sure it came across in my original post!
4th August 2018, 22:01
I find it remarkable that people can make these assertions when the evidence is in front of our eyes! – Hahahah. The evidence shows Ric has beaten Max soundly in the 3 years together. Problem is with you lot, the evidence tends to deform through your orange glasses, hahahahah.
kanan, moi, erikje, hahostolze, anunaki, davidnotcoulthard, just to name a few, are all part of the orange propaganda machine that never seizes to amaze the very fabric of reality, hahahaha.
5th August 2018, 0:58
@ju88sy, I have noticed that many of those faster qualifying laps put in by MV have been only a few thousandths of a second quicker than DRs lap, which to me shows more of a determination to beat his team mate, and take risks to do so, than an actual display of superior skill although the record will no doubt be taken to show superiority. For Red Bull marketing purposes a young (very) champion is the most effective as it is the teenagers they want to start buying their product, 1st Vettel could do no wrong and now it’s Max, although he has come close.
5th August 2018, 7:43
The average gap over 2017:
Only a few thousandths? In qualifying, and in the race, MV is simply faster than DR.
5th August 2018, 8:43
Down under everything looks smaller if it concerns Ric.
5th August 2018, 15:03
1) Why did you mention 2017 and not 2018? Hhhhhhh
2) RIC is faster in the race
3) I’d rather be a tenth slower in quali, which mostly equals no extra grid positions, then being slower in race trim. Ask Stewart, ask Lauda, ask Prost, ask DR
4) Max doesn’t want Sainz as a teammate
5th August 2018, 16:40
1) -0.672s. 2018 https://clone.racefans.net/2018-f1-season/2018-f1-statistics/2018-f1-qualifying-data/
I guess this must really hurt. HHHHHHHHH
2) Race laptimes. Out of 526 laps they were on track together MV 302 versus DR 224.
So everything you say is nonsense.
As a teamowner that wants to win the WDC and WCC I rather take the faster driver who outqualifies his teammate again and again and is faster in racetrim.
And that Sainz story is another made up story by a Spanish newspaper, trying to make Sainz look better than he is.
5th August 2018, 19:14
You’re a tool. Truth doesn’t hurt me, in contrast to you and you’re other fellow oranges. All what I’ve said is derived from cold data.
1) That 0.672 is a useless statistic and can simply be explained which I already partly did in another comment:
“One time RIC decided not to go all out and save tyres bc he had a 20-place grid penalty (though he had a car failure later on in the race anyhow). One time he couldn’t participate in the FP in which drivers establish their quali-setup. Yet he was only 0.15 slower than Max in quali (btw Max also had a FP during another weekend in which he had car problems, but that was a FP in which they were working on their race-setup). And just last weekend he got unlucky with a yellow in Q2 after Stroll crashed and it wasn’t possible any longer to qualify bc of the rain.”
That 0.672 (according to my stats it’s 0.651 btw, but that’s just a detail) can be traced back for almost 75% to the last qualifying in Hungary. Read what the link you gave says: “This is calculated by comparing the best times of a pair of team mates in the last part of each qualifying session where both set a time.” Max was 5.2 seconds faster than DR in q2 bc of the reason I stated above.
Another big flaw of this statistic is that Max didn’t even qualify for q3 and Daniel did in the second GP-weekend, yet according to this statistic Max ‘won’ this intra-battle LOL. And to spice things up, DR took pole position in Monaco whereas MV could only race at the stewards’ discretion bc he failed to qualify. Yet according to this statistic, MV again didn’t lose.
Add that weekend in Germany in which DR saved tyres, bc of the 20-place grid penalty, to it and you’ll find a difference much smaller than 0.65, namely between 1 and 2 tenths.
2) Where did you get that data? No link, no context, no nothing. I bet it’s analogous to 1), the issue of qualifying, namely that you’re full of ish. Just by reading your sentence, I can already recognize it. You’re desperately trying to hide context, other, more important variables. Like stating ” (..) they were on track together (..)” But isn’t that just a convenient way to conceal the fact that Max has had a lot of trouble to keep his car on track? Muwahahahahahaha. Stings doesn’t it, childish tool? Ouch.
I have another statistic for you: I, the one and only krxx, have lost less races than Fangio, Clark, Stewart, Lauda, Piquet, Prost, Prost, MSchumacher, all of them. Nobody can’t touch me.. YEAH
3) As a teamowner that wants to win the WDC and WCC I rather take the faster driver who outqualifies his teammate again and again – Well, this kind of reasoning is probably why you will never get a position as a racing executive. Again and again? More like 2 out of 3 for the past and ongoing season.
– (..) and is faster in racetrim. – NOW you’re talking.. ish again. Bc yes, I too would like to have the better racer, but your is that that’s DR.
4) And that Sainz story is another made up story by a Spanish newspaper, trying to make Sainz look better than he is. – Could be. But my point was/is you would disregard it anyway, wihout caring for it’s validity.
5th August 2018, 19:33
And to add to those qualifying statistics, the ‘Qualifying results table’ gives a much fairer comparison in this context. As you can see, RIC has a better average starting spot, despite the last two qualifyings in which he got unlucky by no fault of his own. His average starting position without counting the last two weekends, is 5.1 You could translate that as the first RB. I bet you already noticed it, but that it didn’t fit your narrative so you opted to point out that 0.65 statistic. Hope you can sleep at night.
DR is beating MV this season despite having much more technical failures, a bit of bad luck and getting the number two – treatment: https://www.gpfans.com/en/articles/2190/ricciardo-to-leave-red-bull-over-verstappen-frustrations/ – As if we didn’t already know.
And I didn’t even hate to break your bolas.
6th August 2018, 8:38
Blablabla, so many words, so little substance.
5th August 2018, 17:38
Ju88sy, another FBoy who just comes here and starts hatin on everyone who’s a threat to his dear Max. Ignoring facts and reasoning.
“Ricciardo (..) lacks a smidgen of one lap pace vs the very fastest drivers and this would be true vs Vettel and especially Hamilton, both of whom have put together multiple title winning performances over multiple seasons.” – Already forgot about 2014?
Secondly, if DR is that flawed, then that would make Max just terrible.
He proceeds with his analysis:
“The likely reality for Ricciardo is once Verstappen has this season behind him, the expectation is Max would capitalise on his one lap pace advantage, when combined with improved reliability that would translate to him consistently beating Ricciardo because he will more often than not start races ahead.” – The MV FBoys have saying this from the get go, hahahahah. Yet he’s still trailing behind. DR was faster than MV in 2016 in both race and quali. From 2017 onwards about less than 0.15s slower in quali, but more than makes up for it in races, the only thing that matters in the end btw.
Just stop this already, you’re embarrassing yourself.
5th August 2018, 18:03
Lol, he’s the one embarrassing himself….
Man, you’re talking so much doodoo I’m sure that people talk to your butt convinced it must be your mouth.
The stats I’ve shown you tell a different story.
Average qualifying gap: 0,672
Race laps: 302-224
Please come back when you have removed your anti MV sunglasses.
5th August 2018, 19:47
Hahaha.. still haven’t had enough Oconomo? I’ve already refuted your claims and misleading statistics. And where exactly did you give me the race laps stats? Everybody can verify that what I said and see that what you have said is useless and misleading. Remember, I’ve never gotten beaten by any F1 champ ever. I’m unbeaten.
So blinded with your orange fanaticism that you can’t separate fact and fiction. And the only reply you can come up with is: “Lol, he’s the one embarrassing himself….
Man, you’re talking so much doodoo I’m sure that people talk to your butt convinced it must be your mouth.”
Like kindergarten, bc you ran out of arguments you resort to just repeating my words directed to someone else. And the second part just doesn’t make sense, hhhhh. You’ve got some things mixed up over there. But hey, I don’t even expect you to notice that bc you made your inability of deducing perfectly clear already.
6th August 2018, 12:33
@krxx Sorry but it doesn’t look like your exactly “switserland” either. you are clearly ignoring the FACT that max is faster when they are both on track. in both qualy and in the race. that said, you must really hate the one or love the other. Daniel is more consistent, experienced and has a more likeable attitude. But Max is faster, understands the car better and has better tyre management. greetings from a guy who likes both of them.
4th August 2018, 10:28
Most complete driver? Steady on.
4th August 2018, 9:40
If he’s getting away from something, i don’t think he’s getting away from Max, but from Horner, Marko, and the Honda …
Chris Lloyd (@chrisr1718)
4th August 2018, 9:45
I think he’d getting away from all 4 of them.
4th August 2018, 16:58
i sincerly don’t think Max scares him.
Maybe he’s tired of him being a brat, but i don’t think he seems Max as a problem for him.
Max needs to learn still lot of things.
He’s pretty young
4th August 2018, 9:57
Well yeah sure he would like to emulate Hamilton as far as F1 success who wouldn’t. If moving to a factory team as the lead driver especially one that has a pretty decent record in F1.
If that gives Ricciardo a leg up, great move on his part. Also I hear the pays not to shabby either.
As for getting away from Verstappen I believe they got on quite OK off the track. On track the records will show that Ricciardo has had more pole positions. more fasted race laps and has out pointed Verstappen. Ricciardo Has had more podiums and won I think the same GP wins as Verstappen over the same period (4) at this point in time, and lets not bother with qualies, no points… Sundays race counts. So anyone saying that He running scared is only being childish.
I think Ricciardo is getting away from the toxic atmosphere created by Marko and Horner.
4th August 2018, 10:25
Have a look at the Sundays then, right before either Max or Daniel exited the race. You will find Max leading Daniel most of the times.
Then take out the technical failures, and you will have the driver error exits left. You will find Max crashing out of a race more often than Daniel.
Assuming Max will improve and will become more clever, which could well be the case looking the age difference (maturity) of Max and Daniel, and will reach the same level of Daniel in consistency… well, conclude for yourself.
4th August 2018, 10:37
Look at the Sundays then, the moment either Max or Daniel retired. You fill find Max leading Daniel more often.
Take out the tech failures, so only the driver errors. You fill find Max crashing out more often than Daniel.
Look at the maturity (age, experience) of both, and it fair to assume Max will improve the most here. Assuming Max will reach Daniel’s level of maturity and consistency -so less crashes- and then…. well, conclude for yourself.
4th August 2018, 11:56
Well I’ll give you he is more successful than his father, and he has toned his style down. Enabling him to win a race this yr. But his carry on at Hungaroring shows his volatility still lies just under the surface.
I think with the difficulties that RB may have trying to control two very fast, very competitive and very young drivers while trying to develop a new car/engine combo is going to be interesting to watch.
When the pressure is on the weakest point gives way.
4th August 2018, 15:02
Verstappen reminds me A LOT of Vettel. Given the best car he’s a top driver. Given something less than perfect he’s not up to that standard and has a tendency to be easily upset which causes errors. Ricciardo makes the most of what he’s given consistently. As for Max “maturing”, well, I think it’s fairly obvious at this point that Red Bull moved him up to the A team prematurely. Same can be said for a number of other drivers. This is the fourth year for Max. He’s calmed down of late but F1 fans have a short memory. Look back to the beginning of the season. Unforced errors everywhere. Red Bull claims no Number One driver, but it seems some equals are more equal than others. With Renault Ricciardo can be the clear Number 1 with a team built around him and a full brand behind him. Plus he can cash larger checks.
I don’t know how excited I am to be forced to cheer on Renault next year, but…
6th August 2018, 7:22
Well said @Tarheelpup. I see Verstappen as a ‘Vettel’ type driver whereas Ricciardo is more in the style of Alonso. But with Verstappen specifically, I think RBR made a huge mistake in vaulting him into the car too early. They’d have done better to wait until he was more mature before putting him into a race seat. Time will tell whether that move spoiled his career before it started.
4th August 2018, 18:53
I have to say.. Ric is way better than his father on track. Not sure where that leaves him.
4th August 2018, 21:14
In front of Verstappen :))
5th August 2018, 8:45
Not in quali:)
5th August 2018, 12:49
and.. not in the races.. only when VER did not deliver, RIC did and scored his points.
4th August 2018, 10:03
Over the past three races Ric has noted in interviews after Quali and the Race itself that Max went with a different car setup or in a different direction with his car setup .
I wonder if the communication from Max’s side of the garage has been less than forthcoming of late .
4th August 2018, 11:44
There may be something in that but I think it’s probably more a case of Dan targeting race setup and Max targeting qualifying.
Early last year Dan made the point that setting their cars up to maximise qualifying was costing them race pace. At that point he was consistently out qualifying Max. After that, he’s consistently been out qualified but has tended to keep his car in better shape.
I’m also not all that sure he’s been all that motivated for the last couple of years, because it’s been apparent from testing that RBR wouldn’t be in contention for the top,step all that often and that’s really the only thing he’s interested in.
I expect a lot different person next year, and a lot less “he went in a different direction to me” type excuses.
5th August 2018, 12:52
RIC gave up on Quali attempts knowing they would not succeed and tried to increase his chances in racetrim.
4th August 2018, 10:25
It’s pretty obvious that Red Bull have been favouring Max for a while and apparently DR had a meeting with Marko to get some reassurances that he’d get equal treatment and it’s shortly after that meeting everything got announced that he would be moving to Renault. So it’s pretty safe to assume that DR did not get the reassurances he was looking for and probably wasn’t offered the same deal as Max either so effectively they must have told him he’s a number 2 driver if he wants to stay. Obviously DR is awesome, the best overtaker out there and the one most likely to steal a podium or a win if an opportunity present itself. So RBR and Marko must have gambled that with Mercedes not an being option, and Ferrari very unlikely, he wouldn’t go anywhere so they could keep him for cheap.
As for where Red Bull is heading. Even if they have a great chassis and will likely do well with a Honda engine. It’s hard to imagine them doing any better over the next couple of years than they have been over the last few years. So likely ending up around the 3rd best team, as a best case scenario. As a worse case scenario, the Honda engine is once again not going to be developed as fast as at least Mercedes, Ferrari and maybe even Renault, so it could well be that the RBR package will only be the 4th or 5th best package in a year or two.
Honda is in an interesting situation as well. Have been trashed my McLaren for years, and RBR having a history of trashing Renault so unless Honda pulls a miracle, it’s likely they will continue getting abuse from RBR. And will they take that. Honda next year will be in the exact same situation as Renault was a few years ago when they sold the team and only continued as an engine supplier to RBR (and other teams) but Renault could not stand the constant abuse and eventually bought the team back to continue as a full works team. You don’t need a crystal ball to see that Honda might do the same. At the moment Force India with their troubles seems like the obvious choice for someone looking to buy a team with a decent chassis that is pushing well above their weight. If that happens, RBR will once again be a customer team instead of a works team and who will they turn to then? Aston Martin branded Cosworth engines?
So what will happen with Renault? Obviously a great historic team with lots of successes behind them. They are last of the three complete works teams. They are spending a lot of money and they are improving pretty fast. 9th in 2016, 6th in 2017 and currently sitting 4th. Would it be that hard to imagine that Renault would be a comfortable 4th next year and challenging the top 3 the year after that? Obviously DR doesn’t think so. And regardless whomever ends up in the second Red Bull, Ricciardo and Hulkenberg is going to be a stronger driving pair. Even if the Renault is only going to be the 4th fastest car, Max and Sainz/Gasly/…, is likely going to throw away a fair amount of points and may even end up behind them. But if that happens, it will obviously be because of the under-performing Honda PU :-)
So yeah, gutsy move from Ricciardo and the more I think about it, the more it makes sense. Really hope it works out.
4th August 2018, 10:54
Daniel clearly swapped because of Verstappen. Max has earned himself #1 in the team and that means Daniel need to earn himself #1 in another top team if he ever wanna make it. The Nico Rosberg option to stay and snatch 1 out of 4 championchips doesnt exists in a team that isnt dominating.
Equally Red Bull having their young and thirsty #1 ready and set would wanna be looking down the junior series/teams for their future. There is no place for Daniel in that team anymore and i think its made more clear everytime we hear from the team or Daniel nowdays.
As far as putting a competent car on the grid no driver would have any doubts in Red Bull. Honda or Tag Heuer doesnt matter.
4th August 2018, 11:07
Max didn’t earn anything, despite loosing massive amounts of point making lost of mistakes, braking his car again and again and constantly been lower in the point rankings than his team mate, he got given the #1 status.
David Not Coulthard (@davidnotcoulthard)
4th August 2018, 16:18
Jimmi Cynic (@jimmi-cynic)
4th August 2018, 19:42
@davidnotcoulthard – Yeah. Seems like Max was braking his car at almost every corner. Although many times he took them flat. Except the times when he was ‘breaking’ his car – or was his car out-breaking itself.
Still… early in the season seemed he couldn’t catch a break. Even after a good breakfast.
4th August 2018, 20:03
Luckily not every one speaks english as first second or third language :)
4th August 2018, 22:41
braking his car again
? – We all understood the comment and that’s the primary purpose of language. But it’s a typical comment from davidnotcoulthard. He must be very much loved at social gatherings, correcting other people’s use of language.
David Not Coulthard (@davidnotcoulthard)
5th August 2018, 16:20
krxx – marcelh and @jimmi-cynic might find this relevant as well – I respect the fact that you might find it hard to believe this but perhaps owing to English not really being my first language, I actually didn’t really understand (that part. The rest of the comment I understood so I didn’t quote it).
Was it meant VES Maldonadoes more often than RIC (yes, he does)? That he overdrives his car into mechanical failures? (no he doesn’t – neither did drivers of early turbo cars racing against DFVs), or sarcastically that he breaks his car so often that one might as well say he does so as often as he brakes (no, way too harsh imho).
With so many possible intentions I figured was possible even a “what do you mean by that” wouldn’t have been clear enough since it would look like I was throwing a tantrum because you made a statement against VES (which unfortunately is what the question mark I ended up putting still managed to be. Sorry!).
VES still has much to improve and I’m not even much of a fan of him and as much of a pair of orange glasses krxx accuses me of wearing, I’m not Dutch. I don’t even defend VES much in comparison to other driver(s) I’m much closer to being very defensive of (something I’m sure @patrickl can testify to – sorry for dragging you into this!).
not every one speaks english as first second or third language, so you might decide I failed to make my comment comprehensible anyway. Oh well at least I tried, but in that case sorry. :)
David Not Coulthard (@davidnotcoulthard)
5th August 2018, 16:27
krxx – marcelh and @jimmi-cynic might find this relevant as well – had problems posting a reply here so I had to put it here.
I have an opinion
4th August 2018, 11:08
Daniel must see something in Renault’s future that no one else outside the team knows of. In June of this year, rumours were aired that Renault was pursuing Adrian Newey (who is to be out of contract at the end of next year). These rumours were dismissed by Abiteboul but not Newey.
4th August 2018, 11:30
I have never seen such a thing circling around, but now that would be something!
4th August 2018, 14:35
There have been several rumours about Newey moving on, so far he has denied them. But Riccardos move came as a surprise to most.
4th August 2018, 14:45
I would think that Newey will be feeling a bit revitalized at the prospect of working with Honda at RBR. After all, it is RBR that has maximized the Renault Pu, not Renault themselves, so he must be stoked to see what they can do with the Honda like they did with the Renault Pu (actually winning races from third in the WCC) and that Mac couldn’t do with Honda.
4th August 2018, 15:31
Hit another wall? :))
No but seriously Verstappen has thrown everything trying to keep up with Ricciardo and failed!! Maybe he can do better against Gasly. But what I’ve seen of him he seems quite calm and controlled as well as quick. A bit of de’ja vu for the young Verstappen? Think ground hog day.
And Verstappens tantrum at the Hungaroring despite the fact Horner said they expected the engine to fail….so why get so upset? I did not hear what the problem was, mechanical failure caused by the driver pushing a bit to hard?
It would seem his lack of control is still very close to the surface and easily triggered.
If Gasly out performs him as well….what then?
4th August 2018, 15:51
The good old Max is overdriving the car opinion again. It’s been a while since we’ve seen it.
Max is almost at the same amount of points as RIC even with his costly mistakes that gave RIC a huge points advantage in the first place.
RIC is a decent driver.
5th August 2018, 0:28
@johnrkh Sooooo…not a Max fan then I take it….”trying to keep up”…”and failed”…”tantrum”…”pushing a bit too hard”…”lack of control very close to the surface and easily triggered”…
How childish and desperate you sound.
5th August 2018, 3:47
Newey doesnt care what engines in the car, he’s an aero and packaging guru and next year the aero rules are dumbing down that advantage that Newey has.
BTW I don’t think Newey really likes Max.
I see RBR dropping to 5th or worse in 2019
harold wilson (@bonbonjai)
5th August 2018, 13:23
I have an opinion
Any driver wants a manufacturer works team, any. Mercedes and Ferrari were not an option. That left only Renault. Unless you are suggesting next years Red Bull Honda power unit will be world beaters. I see no evidence for that.
4th August 2018, 11:26
RIC is getting away from Max. Max was better last season already in all but getting the points done (yes I know this is what counts in the end) mostly because of a streak of mechanical problems.
This year Max has started very bad but again he is way better in qualy and very close in points.
RIC will not be 1st driver at Redbull summer maybe he can beat Hulkenberg at Renault
4th August 2018, 11:33
Summer = so
4th August 2018, 12:19
I think the only reason the gap has considerably closed is the string of reliability problems for Ricciardo in the last few races
4th August 2018, 13:04
Max had 2 mechanical DNFs in the last races as well.
4th August 2018, 13:27
Yep true, just felt like he has had more. Actually looking at the number of DNFs between both of them, that’s a crazy number of races they have both not finished
5th August 2018, 14:38
Max has had 2 DNFs in the last 3 races of which just 1 was not self inflicted without a question. So just one in the whole season and maybe, just maybe, two. Now let’s have a look at his teammate: 3. That’s only in the race and only the race ending ones and of a technological nature. He also had Monaco, which wasn’t race ending. He’s also been taken out by Max in Baku, bc of Max “would rather drive them off track than let them pass”-philosophy. Now have a look at quali and FPs. One time RIC decided not to go all out and save tyres bc he had a 20-place grid penalty (though he had a car failure later on in the race anyhow). One time he couldn’t participate in the FP in which drivers establish their quali-setup. Yet he was only 0.15 slower than Max in quali (btw Max also had a FP during another weekend in which he had car problems, but that was a FP in which they were working on their race-setup). And just last weekend he got unlucky with a yellow in Q2 after Stroll crashed and it wasn’t possible any longer to qualify bc of the rain. Also, I almost forgot, he got a very harsh 3-place grid penalty in Australia for not slowing down enough for something that occurred at the other side of the track.
That’s what oranges (and a few other Max-FBoys) always do: only highlight the ups of Max and his misfortune (besides exaggerating/misrepresenting them) and downplaying the skills and misfortune of his competitors, especially his teammate. When Sainz was beating him in quali, FBoys rebuffed and said that it was the race that counts, that that’s where the points are given. Yet now that while DR is getting beaten by MV in about 2 out of 3 quali’s, RIC has better race pace and craft in almost every single race. But they, the FBoys, now just disregard that, claim the opposite and say DR just gets lucky (and MV being unlucky in so many crashes and what not). Ask yourself then, why does it happen so often?
You also got the group that says that MV is still inexperienced and so it’s normal for a driver to make those mistakes. But his (number of) crashes and what not aren’t/isn’t the norm. He’s just as experienced as Schumi who already was top dog for about two seasons when he was brought in and hailed by Ferrari as ‘il salvatore’, who took with him Todt, Brawn and Byrne to get them back to top; he already had 20 or so race wins, 2 WDCs. Or how about Prost, a title contender from the get go. Or anyone really. Can’t see anything that shows that they made the same (number of) mistakes, or that the top drivers got beaten by their teammates.
And even more so, we’re only talking about now, not about any possible future poles, wins, points, or championships. “Max’s got way more potential than Daniel, so he’s the better one” Who knows? Teams need championships, race wins and points now, not in a possible future scenario.
The FBoys were claiming from the first race onwards that MV would wipe the floor with DR, yet DR has beaten him in the past 2.5 years and the gap actually has grown in favor of DR. And all of this while getting the number 2 – treatment: https://www.gpfans.com/en/articles/2190/ricciardo-to-leave-red-bull-over-verstappen-frustrations/
For the ones, like über-FBoy robbie, who still claim it’s just an urban legend. Ofcourse RB will maximize DRs, and thereby their own result if Max isn’t anywhere near, but they won’t hesitate to compromise DRs race with for example their timing of pit stops if it benefits Marko’s project. It just doesn’t get that much media attention like Ham-Ros or Pro-Sen for example, bc it’s not a title battle. And on top of that, the RBs are much faster than the cars outside of the top 6, so it usually has an effect of ‘just’ one or two places.
Claims that DR is going away from Max haven’t been paying much attention the past time, or more likely, are just FBoys: robbie, kanan, moi, erikje, hahostolze, anunaki, davidnotcoulthard, ju88sy, davidBR, marko(s), rethla, 90% of whom are oranges. DR knows and has proven he can handle MV.
Seemingly MV doesn’t want Sainz as a teammate. He would prefer a ‘submissive’ and ‘non-confrontational’ driver to work alongside him. I can already fill in the reactions of the orange fans.
5th August 2018, 16:48
Average quali gap 2018: -0.672s In Max his favour ofcourse.
Fastest laps: 302-224
It’s really very clear cut why DR is fleeing Red Bull with his tail behind his legs.
No matter how long your epistels are, it’s all nonsical dribble.
5th August 2018, 20:00
Oconomo, directing words like nonsical dribble don’t add anything to validate your orange coloured statements. Just come with arguments or just stay away.
4th August 2018, 19:39
Yeah I think it’ll be interesting to see if he can beat Hulkenberg, but I wouldn’t be surprised to see the opposite either.
4th August 2018, 12:08
All this talk of number 1 and 2 drivers begs the question, why would RB bother given they are not even close to winning either championship?
4th August 2018, 13:30
@mog Exactly, which is why there is no #1 and #2 on the team. That’s just an assumption some posters like to make to suit their argument.
4th August 2018, 17:07
Its just a way of saying “Max is their topdriver”, if it ever came to titledeciding races they would apply the same teamorders as Merc and ferrari.
4th August 2018, 18:48
@rethla Yeah fair enough.
4th August 2018, 12:46
It’s pretty spurious (not to say scoreboard) journalism to say Ricciardo outscores Max, when more neutral (ie, taking into account the many technical issues) stats like qualified ahead and laps ahead are so overwhelmingly in Max’s favour it’s pretty clear why Ricciardo is leaving.
David BR (@david-br)
4th August 2018, 16:10
@hahostolze +1 Verstappen was hugely impressive in the second half of last season. This season he started over-aggressively, presuming (I think) that he had ‘bossed’ Vettel and Hamilton, in particular, on track in that second half of 2017 – when Hamilton had wisely been playing safe, Vettel less so – and thought the same would happen this season. Since learning otherwise, he’s returned to being the faster and better driver at Red Bull.
As for all the stuff about a ‘toxic atmosphere’ at Red Bull and Verstappen being favoured: Ricciardo was touted (rightly) as a future champion and was himself sounding out the prospects of moving to Mercedes or Ferrari. So it cuts both ways. Verstappen fairly quickly committed to Red Bull when he could have taken much longer to consider options. If he’s favoured now, there is a back history.
5th August 2018, 4:14
@hahostolze Damn those scoreboard journalists who use the actual scoreboard to rank teammates. If only Max could ever outscore Dan than you too might have a demonstrable argument.
Wishing you all the best in your future endeavours.
4th August 2018, 13:50
Really I think he just wanted a change of scenery and to try something different. I mean at best Red Bull-Honda next year are probably going to be about the same level they are currently – far ahead of the midfield but a little too far from the top two, and it’ll take them a few years to really make that final jump to the front. Renault’s F1 team is in the same situation, they’re building and improving but it’s going to take a while to jump properly to the front. So Ricciardo’s choice was stay where he is knowing it’ll take time to come good or go somewhere else where it’ll also take time to come good.
He must have figured taking a gamble on Renault was no different to gambling on Red Bull-Honda, so it probably came down to money as I can’t imagine Hulkenberg’s going to be any less difficult to beat than Verstappen.
4th August 2018, 14:14
I personally haven’t seen the evidence that some obviously have of RBR being Max’s team, given DR’s obvious freedom to outpoint him, if nothing else. So I just don’t buy into the concept that DR is Max’s number 2. I think they both have equal equipment and opportunities. The team has simply not been in a position to favour one driver over another as they are both needed equally to advance the car and try to get it higher than third in the WCC.
But if there is something to DR leaving because of Max, the evidence might be there from Saturdays. For Saturdays we can remove the factors of unreliability imbalance between the two, and for the most part other extenuating circumstances like mistakes or contacts with other drivers etc. Saturdays offer a much cleaner comparison, and unquestionably DR has no answer for Max in this regard, going back to last year as well. Twice as often if not more, Max starts ahead of DR in cars that are hard to pass, making a higher quali spot quite key.
So I suppose it is possible DR might be doing the math and figuring this concept of being so outqualified and outlead in races by Max so often, is not a sustainable method to also outpoint him year after year. It has come down to reliability and errors (particularly Max’s earlier on) that have saved DR from not being quite outpointed. But if DR is all that his supporters suggest, he should not fear the challenge Max presents, but rise to it knowing if he is to win he has to beat all comers, including Max. If I’m wrong and indeed RBR favours Max, let’s ask ourselves why then, and I think we’d have to agree they see enough evidence in his raw pace to lean that way.
If the only other option for DR’s decision to leaving Max is to ‘do a Lewis’, then I would say it is closer to being due to him wanting to do a Lewis and he hopes to find himself in a dominant works car, where the chassis and Pu maker are one and the same. Personally I’d have more faith in Newey taking on the new challenge of RBR/Honda and producing something special over what Renault has (or hasn’t) shown us. But then staying at RBR doesn’t seem to be offering DR a chance to ‘do a Lewis.’
No wonder this was a tough decision for DR.
4th August 2018, 14:26
Did he really have a chance with red bull and Max who is only going to get better. That and the unknown engine spec next year. He should have offered he self cheaper to the big teams and upped his price if he become WC. Now he will never be WC and just another driver who could have . All because of just penny’s
4th August 2018, 14:36
As I see it he saw the writing on the wall. When Honda was at Mcclaren, one of the complaints from Honda was that the car was too tightly packaged. This was good for aerodynamics but not for engines. Renault has had the same complaint with the Redbull chassis’s. Do you really think Newey is going to compromise his aero package for Honda? Yes, Torro Rosso have had some success occasionally with Honda. The rear end of the TR is no where near as compact and sleek as the RB.
Daniel is smart. I would be very surprised if this was not part of his decision.
4th August 2018, 14:45
Ricciardo did not leave RB because of Verstappen Ricciardo has beaten him consistently over the last two years. As I have shown in a previous post Ricciardo can leave RB knowing he bettered Verstappen in an equal car.
Ricciardo left because of the silly politics inside of RB, Marko and Horner have made it vary clear who they back, It’s on public record.
4th August 2018, 15:15
@johnrkh What public record? What silly politics? And I would hope DR is not comfortable leaving RBR thinking he has consistently beaten Max. Generally it is not a sustainable nor a winning formula to hope that in spite of being outqualified and outlead double the number of times, one can consistently outpoint one’s teammate through the lottery of mistakes and unreliability. DR, as have we all, has seen what happens when Max keeps it clean in a race and has reliability. DR can’t be leaning on his teammates’ mistakes and unreliability as any kind of winning formula. That is not what I would call stamping one’s authority on one’s team or on the grid. And if it weren’t for Max’s dnf last weekend he’d be ahead of DR in points too, not just raw stats of quali positions and laps ahead similar to last year.
4th August 2018, 21:45
Verstappen has said he is RBs WDC project and Marko has said they are going to build the team around Verstappen. You need to get out more :))
Look you and some other fans of Verstappen need to move on from the oh but Max is a faster qualifier or but Max was in front….before he crashed out. Dosen’t matter at the end of the yr! Only how many points matters.
Will Verstappen get better? Well he has every opportunity now to show he can keep it together. But If I where Verstappen I’d be a little concerned about another 20 yr old coming into the team.
Forgot about Ricciardos DNF the race before? and Ricciardos excellent drive at Hungaroring from back of the field to 4th Despite the Bottas incident? Of course you have :))
You take it easy mate, 2019 brings new opportunities new hope.
5th August 2018, 0:32
@johnrkh Wow, Max really gets under your skin. As do his fans. He must be a real threat.
5th August 2018, 3:13
No not at all, in fact I have often praised Verstappen for his wins and clean races when he has them check if you like.
But I also state the facts as I see them and the evidence of Verstappens frustration in the first six races of the yr and at Hungaroring was certainly there for all to see.
Maybe with Ricciardo leaving and the pressure being lifted from Verstappen and after the summer break he will return feeling a lot better and more secure in his job.
As for his fans (you?) lol, some of them get more hyped up than he does. They need to relax and enjoy the racing, I do :)
5th August 2018, 8:50
@johnrkh Typical of your ilk to be the one to use inflammatory language displaying a childish reaction toward a driver, and then claim those who call you on it are the ones who need to relax. 🤦♂️
5th August 2018, 8:52
That seems to be the problem 😂
David BR (@david-br)
5th August 2018, 15:05
But that’s clearly not the view Red Bull or any other team take – they also have to plan for the future and expect a learning curve. So the argument that Ricciardo has outpointed Verstappen kind of baffles me – it’s not as though Red Bull would expect him to have the consistency yet of a driver 9 years older and with far more F1 experience, including beating a 4x champion over a season.
What I do think is a valid question is whether Red Bull misjudged the Ricciardo issue. They may well see Verstappen as a driver with everything needed to win championships (I’d agree). But that doesn’t mean Ricciardo is easy to replace, at all. Ideally they’d have wanted him there one or two seasons more I’d have thought. When you look at the possible replacements at Ricciardo’s level, none are anyone near as good for the team – too inexperienced or too troublesome (Alonso) or doubtful in terms of performance (Raikkonen? Rosberg??!) Add the fact that they were expecting Ricciardo to sign, it doesn’t seem they had any clear Plan B.
5th August 2018, 20:03
Just the last one:
All what DR ever asked for, was the same treatment.
5th August 2018, 20:10
And just a random other one: http://www.f1i.com/news/297489-verstappen-follow-vettel-helmut-markos-new-project.html
Wow, that robbie just doesn’t know when to quit his tantrum.
Kim Philby (@philby)
4th August 2018, 15:25
Maybe irrelevant but what does that mean for RBR? 4 years ago Vettel dumped them, 2 months ago Renault dumped them and now Ricciardo follows suit to drive a car it is more than a second slower than his current one. Seems to me that the RBR environment is toxic, Helmut Marko appears unbearable on public display and on that evidence it just might be true.
What would Bottas do had he known in advance? Would he gamble on a RBR move or he would have preferred to be Hamilton’s wingman? Also if RBR is looking for a short term solution to give time to Gasly to mature Alonso should be on their radar, if anything I suppose Alonso would welcome the opportunity to fight for the odd victory.
4th August 2018, 15:29
There may have been other factors that influenced the decision but ultimately I think it came down to the same question for Ricciardo as it did for Hamilton, which team gives them the better chance of winning a World Championship.
I said at the time that I could see why Hamilton chose Mercedes over McLaren and I can also see why Ricciardo has chosen Renault over Red Bull now.
Past success is no guarantee of future performance, in the 1980s and 1990s Williams and McLaren were the teams to beat but look how they are doing now, Ferrari are the biggest name in the sport yet they went 20 years without a World Drivers Championship before Schumacher brought the glory days back, while it is currently 10 seasons since their last WDC.
Hamilton may not have predicted just how different the performance of Mercedes and McLaren would go on to be when he made his decision back in 2012, McLaren not having won a single race since he left while Mercedes have dominated after the 2014 rule change, but he correctly thought that Mercedes were the better bet for success going forward.
As much as anyone can predict which teams will be successful in future seasons in F1 especially after a major rule change, Hamilton managed to make the right call, no one could guarantee it was the right move at the time but it was not a fluke or a lucky guess
The other factors which may have influenced Hamilton’s decision back then were that he was not getting on as well with the McLaren as he once was and that he may have felt the time was right to leave the team he grew up in the same way that someone decides the time is right to leave home.
With Ricciardo the performance question was probably more a question of which engine he thinks will be best between Renault and Honda, and in that case I would agree with his choice of Renault.
Honda may manage to surprise us and pull something out of the bag that would allow Red Bull to mount a serious title challenge, but while the Renault engine cannot currently compete with Mercedes and Ferrari I still think it is a safer bet over the next few years than Honda.
If Ricciardo had his pick of all the teams, Mercedes and Ferrari would most likely have been top of his list but there are no spaces in either of those teams so he had to decide what would be the next best option and to him that is the works Renault team.
I think Verstappen may have been a factor in Ricciardo decision, not because he did not think he could beat Verstappen, I think any top driver believes he can beat any other driver given the same opportunities, but that Ricciardo may have felt that Red Bull favoured Verstappen.
If Ricciardo viewed it as a 50-50 decision based on how competitive he thought each team would be, the amount of money he was offered or if he thought Red Bull preferred Verstappen may have been enough to make his mind up, but if he genuinely believed that Red Bull Honda would be the team to beat in the coming seasons he would have signed a new deal to stay with Red Bull no question about it.
4th August 2018, 15:39
Haven’t seen any evidence that Max is the preferred driver other than him committing to the team by going to them and asking for more years with them. DR could have done the same. DR has also had every opportunity to outqualify and outlead Max in races too. If RBR favours Max it is not in equipment or opportunity, but in commitment and shear pace, and that is something Max has brought to the team.
David Not Coulthard (@davidnotcoulthard)
4th August 2018, 16:26
@pja didn’t quite say so though (explicitly including ifs, buts, and maybes, which I wish more commenters on this page did)
4th August 2018, 23:16
? Unlike the comment of marcelh which you ridiculed, yours is incomprehensible.
5th August 2018, 20:13
The solution is simple yet I bet also very hard: Put those orange glasses off.
6th August 2018, 0:33
How’s that Labrador and white cane working for you
5th August 2018, 1:24
@pja, Well rounded summary, I would just like to add that a 2 year contract may expire at exactly the right time to move up to the (current) big 2 teams if Renault haven’t improved enough.
David BR (@david-br)
4th August 2018, 16:31
This is very Ricciardo-centric though! The way I saw it, they were allowed to race hard but fairly. So what? It’s Red Bull’s call to make and certainly was entertaining. Yes they could have crashed, but they didn’t. As for the eventual incident, yes it was frustration-induced, but that doesn’t mean Verstappen or Red Bull had done anything wrong. I still think it was primarily Ricciardo’s fault. He tried to sell Verstappen a dummy that didn’t really work. He could have passed on the right, but had already decided to switch back almost immediately to pass on the left. As the stewards recognized, Verstappen didn’t really move much – which means Ricciardo’s dummy lured him insufficiently to make enough space on the left. Verstappen then drifted left a bit and the gap appeared to be dwindling, causing Ricciardo to bail out but without the downforce to brake in time. By Baku, of course, the media was in full Verstappen-is-a-liability mode so he ended up being blamed whatever.
4th August 2018, 20:02
Yeah, right… More than sure your opinion would have been completely opposite if instead of RIC would have been HAM.
That was like at least 90% VER fault, he just braked too early… and he did it on purpose. Pretty similar to what he did to RAI at Spa-Francorchamps. It’s obvious he’s not very smart as he learns the hard way. Thing is, what’s the fault of the poor guys he keeps destroying their races?!
David BR (@david-br)
4th August 2018, 20:54
@mg1982 My allegiance is fairly evenly divided HAM-VER, much as it would be if Senna or Mansell were still around, I just like their styles of racing, but that doesn’t stop me being critical of either or any. In this case I at first thought Verstappen was to blame mostly too, until looking more closely at what Ricciardo was trying to do. Plus Brawn’s comments on the sudden lack of downforce and consequent lack of braking power being a contributing factor when racing close this year.
4th August 2018, 23:28
(..) but that doesn’t stop me being critical of either or any. – Haahhahahaha. I can assure David BR that nobody takes his remark seriously.
Plus Brawn’s comments on the sudden lack of downforce (..) – Brawn made those comments in order to explain that DR was not to blame for the accident, that he was just a passenger bc of the silly and desperate moves of Max. @mg1982 mentioned the braking, but don’t forget the switcharoo of Max for 3 three times, where only one is allowed. I don’t care what the stewards said. RB ordered their drivers to come to the motor home so they could tell them what to say to the stewards, to get their story straight, so the stewards would deem it a racing incident. If it hadn’t been teammates, the driver that would have made the moves that Max did, would take a penalty.
5th August 2018, 11:41
Obviously someone who does not like f1 and lacks respect for other opinions.
A stain on this forum.
David BR (@david-br)
5th August 2018, 13:57
@krxx As @erikje says, a bit more basic civility would be more rewarding for you in general I imagine. Trolling is easy when other people are trying to engage more or less as we might face-to-face – because I doubt you address people like that in real life, unless you have no actual social life.
5th August 2018, 20:53
Funny that you bring up the basic civility stuff. And you’re right, I don’t address people like that in real life. But I haven’t met anyone in real life who displays such FBoyism as you and I equally doubt that you would display that in real life, bc people would likely be finding it very weird to witness such behaviour. As soon as those two come up, and you bring them up a lot, it’s like you suddenly lose all of your ability to make sound judgement calls. Ofcourse Hamilton and MV are outstanding F1-drivers but every time if there’s an incident or another situation in which a judgement call can be made, you always seem to find that it’s the other driver’s fault, whether it be Vettel, Ricciardo, Kimi, Massa, etc, or when it comes to who’s outperforming who, you again seem to pick (one of) them per definition, or find another excuse for them why they didn’t perform, misjudged or whatever.
I’m definitely not trolling.
And speaking about trolls, I actually like F1, in contrast to orange “stain” erikje, who only follows this circus and has an opinion bc of Max, the man who was born and raised in Belgium, has a Belgian mother and has never paid taxes in the Netherlands. His only dutch part, Jos, was ridiculed in the Netherlands for decades and branded an aggressive wife/woman beater, who couldn’t control his emotions on and off track and eventually convicted, yet now they all wanna kiss his behind.
David BR (@david-br)
6th August 2018, 16:41
Given you’re paying such close attention to my posts, you omitted to mention that I thought Hamilton was underperforming earlier this season and drifts off when things go bad (and allows things like Vettel to pass him too easily), while Verstappen was clearly wrong with any number of incidents this season. Just not, in my view, Baku. Rather than being obsessed with defending Verstappen, I’d reverse the criticism and say the media had become obsessed with finding him at fault with everything. Baku is admittedly controversial. But blaming him for the minor Stroll collision was ridiculous.
And then I’d contrast this nuanced evaluation of drivers I like with your accusing everyone who disagreeing with you in aggressive and juvenile fashion as an ‘orange’. And then you claim not to be trolling? Drop the adolescent nonsense and just post you opinion with out abusing people’s intelligence and dignity. Or be ignored. Your choice.
4th August 2018, 19:27
Sorry to his fans who can get wierdly aggressive about what a good guy he is and how he can never do wrong and so on by the way, but he’s obviously getting away.
4th August 2018, 23:43
wierdly aggressive about what a good guy he is – ?? Show us some examples on how they get aggressive. I think you’re full of ish and this smells like a defamation of character. Same like you oranges did Sainz.
(..) how he can never do wrong and so on – Hmm, sounds like a clean fit description for your typical Max FBoy instead.
5th August 2018, 13:07
Hmm your a “great” example of those
As i said before, your a stain on this forum. Please stop doing that and try to accept people with different views without calling names, aggressive postings etc..
5th August 2018, 21:25
If you would take notice, you would know that david-br per definition is pro-Ham and Ver, so indeed, people know that his opinion about that Baku-incident isn’t objective and thus not to be taken seriously. In several polls it was shown that about 80% of the people blamed it on Max. Knowing that Max has a lot of online fans, it’s probably even more skewed.
Hahahah.. I knew that full of ish remark would trigger you, specifically you erikje, to post a reply. But isn’t it allowed to call something ish that actually isn’t true and thus had nothing to do with not accepting other opinions
(I’ve never seen any evidence of aggressive remarks about what a good guy he is?? That in itself is a really strange statement)? He was just hating on a teammate of Max. I’ve genuinely asked for examples and simply gave my opinion about his unfounded statement, I uttered my suspicion that it was just a hate comment. Yet you’re telling me I’m unwilling to accept opinions and want me not to express mine. Kind of flawed and hypocritical, wouldn’t you agree? And furthermore I gave two examples of previous hating on a teammate of Ver and the adoration of Max by FBoys.
And why do you resort to multiple name calling when somebody only expresses his opinion in the first place?
5th August 2018, 21:43
And before I forget once again (bc Oconomo also claimed the same thing), I am not a DR fan like you claim and I’m not hating on Max, nor on anyone else. See, that’s another sign that the likes of you, are FBoys: you can’t see a comment for what it is: an analysis in which Max’ teammate got the better of him. Or when I give nuance to a statistic, put context into it. You immediately interpret it as being negative criticism towards your idol, getting all aggressive and ish and bc he can’t do anything wrong in your orange coloured eyes, the one making the comment must be a fan of the other driver. “Sinner”
4th August 2018, 20:06
Baku incident. And more importantly the way horner and Marko handle it must been the moment Ricciardo started considering leaving the team.
4th August 2018, 20:39
I am afraid Ric is doing a Alonso.
5th August 2018, 8:58
That possible outcome is just as likely as him doing a Hamilton. Everyone has his/her opinion but we simply don’t know. Neither do Renault or Red Bull.
5th August 2018, 19:01
Well then ..they invented the forums ;)
4th August 2018, 22:10
Red Bull is a soft drinks company. They use their sports sponsorships to market their soft drinks to the young crowd . That is their philosophy. They believe a younger verstappen can sell more cola than a older ricciardo. Just like Vettel could sell more than Webber. When Red Bull said “both sides are responsible for the crash” at Baku the writing on the wall was clear for ricciardo. I believe he made the decision in his heart then. He did not want a Webber repeat. Time will tell if he ends up to be an Alonso or a Hamilton. But he held his head high in honor. Red bull got what they wanted in their heart although in a shocking way.
I will cheer for him. He is a great driver. Well rounded. Hope he does a turn around of Renault like Schumacher and Alonso.
Jimmi Cynic (@jimmi-cynic)
5th August 2018, 19:22
@tmax – So….it’s win-win for Danny. Either he ends up like Lewis with 4 WDC or Alonso with 2. That’s not so bad either way.
6th August 2018, 16:59
:) I Hope it is . When i meant end up like Alonso I meant the fact that he should be a 5 time world champion at least , if he was not unlucky with the team moves !!!! :(
5th August 2018, 2:32
A few people trying to say that Merc did offer Verstappen a deal last yr.
got this off Crash but is available elswhere, just look up Lauda mocks Marko over Verstappen deal.
5th August 2018, 11:44
And again.. You know the lauda remark is fake news. Family of trump perhaps?
5th August 2018, 13:41
:) sorry comrade you and oconomo know what I posted was correct. If Lauda did say something to the contrary please provide the link or name of the site. I did a search for ORF and got
5th August 2018, 16:55
In English: Austrian, you know that country where Niki was born, Television.
But hey: Here you go
Feel better now?
5th August 2018, 16:57
And btw, this line seals it:
Lauda conceded that Mercedes were simply too slow to sign Verstappen, “Helmut Marko was faster!”
You anti-MV boys are hilarious.
5th August 2018, 20:56
Well I’ll give you that, but something tells me Merc are looking at RBs repair bills and thinking they dodged bullet. Also Lauda said Hamilton was better, so they only wanted Verstappen as a wingman
5th August 2018, 12:18
All fake news:
This is what Lauda told the ORF:
“We actually talked to Verstappen, that’s for sure,” Lauda told ORF.
“The conversations with Jos and Max Verstappen took place in the summer of 2017. Lewis Hamilton was at that time extended by one year and Valtteri Bottas was under pressure after some weaker performances.
“Helmut Marko was faster, Verstappen knew exactly what he had there and then he signed.”
Although Lauda admits Hamilton and Verstappen could have clashed, he believes the Dutchman would have been able to bring the best out of the four-time world champion.
5th August 2018, 4:41
I think one of the main reasons is that the team is backing up Max more than him, and if you follow the history of redbull F1 team, you will notes Christian Horner backing the driver he likes. webber time, then Vettle vs Riccardo. I think he saw it coming specially in the recent events.
5th August 2018, 8:52
It doesn’t help if the team owner states he want to achieve the youngest WDC title with Max. Then which team is going to come out on top is uncertain. Hopefully Lewis realises that as well and does not start talking about how he knew Mercedes etc etc..
5th August 2018, 10:10
Isn’t the reason for RIC leaving RBR a financial one? At Renault his base salary package will put him in the lines of HAM, VET and Alfonso, where as RB are working with a lower base salary and bonusses for winning races, podiums etc….
5th August 2018, 13:44
Certainly have to be part of it. But the Honda deal was also a factor as well I think.
5th August 2018, 11:10
Thank You Daniel Ricciardo for shaking up the drivers market,
5th August 2018, 11:59
Its a bit of both I think. Many thought Hamilton made a mistake going to Mercedes, yet instead of being ‘just’ a one time WDC he is knocking on the door as an all time great- right choice at the right time.
Also getting away from Max is important for Daniel I think. He has outscored him in their two years together (and before Max fans jump on last years reliability issues the Max had one more retirement but was over 25 points behind) but Red Bull are putting their weight behind Max, as mentioned above when the boss wants your teammate to be the youngest WDC you have no hope to beat him in the same car. Good work Dan to stick it to them, pick up some nice salary and hopefully Renault get more competitive or he can get to Merc or Ferrari in 2021.
5th August 2018, 13:27
@garns Sorry to point out the fact that when Max had unreliability it cost him more because he was usually ahead of DR from qualifying higher and being ahead of him in the races. Case in point, the last race. DR benefited from Max’s unreliability more than Max benefitted from DR’s.
I haven’t seen where RBR have put more weight behind Max. Having a boss who wants one of his drivers to be the youngest WDC is not a sign that he favours that one driver. Not having a WCC car will ensure that Max will not be the youngest WDC anyway. DR has had every opportunity that Max has had to re-sign with RBR and to make the team ‘his’ as each driver on each team can, by outperforming the other driver. DR and Max have been extremely close on track and with their performances, yet there is that nagging reality for DR that Max outqualifies him and leads him in races when they’re both healthy, by two to one. The points thing, yeah DR had managed more points last year, and this year Max would be leading but for his dnf last weekend, DR with his unreliability issues too, which really cloud the points thing. The pace on track though? There’s where DR really has his hands full with Max. Most people would not advise that the sustainable formula for beating one’s teammate is to be outqualified by him and outlead by him two to one and hope that unreliability and mistakes see him ahead in points in the end.
5th August 2018, 14:01
Ricciardo has had 4 DNFs to Verstappens 3 so far this yr. WDC points Ricciardo 118 V Verstappen 105.
Look I don’t want to put undue pressure on you at all, so you go and think about it for a while. Get back to me when you are comfortable with your response.
Oh if you need any help with research please don’t hesitate to ask…:)
5th August 2018, 14:40
@johnrkh Yeah Max cost himself points and handed a bunch to DR in doing so. We have seen what happens when Max keeps it clean. If I’m DR I’m not going to bank on being outqualified and outlead two to one and hope he hands you points, as a method to beat one’s teammate and stamp one’s authority on a team. Let’s see what the second half brings. Since Monaco Max has been putting DR to shame. I predict the trend will continue in the second half.
5th August 2018, 20:45
Haha as I have said before, lets see what happens. There is a way to go yet before the last checkered flag falls.
5th August 2018, 14:25
Nice rebuttal post mate. Max has been better than Dan in quali and that was one of the main points of my comment. It always so close but Max seems to just pip him at quali (I wont even be one of those fan boys that say RBR use engine mapping to make sure, young boy is FAST). That’s why I say Dan needs to be free of Max- he seems a little quicker but if Dan was in a Merc he wouldn’t know Max was in the race- F1 doesn’t show drivers talent but more so who engineers the best.
But in current F1 is track position is everything. Dan beat Seb in 2014 due to quai positions, same with Dan and Max now- as you state their pace is very similar.
As for saying Red Bull don’t favour Max I totally disagree! When Helmut Marko has an agenda that is what Red Bull will do- Christian Horner doesn’t run that team. I was in Spain in 2016 when Max won his first race, they screwed Daniel over for that one, and have done many times since. I am a bit surprised you don’t think they favour Max.
6th August 2018, 0:34
@garns Fair comment. Do I think they absolutely love Max and see a great future with him? For sure. Do I think DR has been held back from stamping his authority over Max? No way. Equal equipment and opportunity. And until I hear DR say anything other than that, whatever Marko wants it is surely to promote Max, even coddle him or what have you, but not to shoot themselves in the foot and hobble DR when they sit third in the WCC and have no need to order him to take less and just have Max trying to break into the top 4 cars. They both need way more, as in first place kind of more.
DR has said this has been his hardest decision. Does that sound like someone happy to leave where he was so hard done by and will be so free now? And Max was certainly pretty convinced in recent weeks that DR would be staying. Perhaps he would have been more mum if he had thought DR was a disgruntled bloke (at his expense no less), and being discouraged, ‘many times’ as you claim. Why wouldn’t Marko be happy with a driver who more often outqualified Max than he currently does? That way they’d be regularly displacing a Merc or a Ferrari instead of just occasionally. And if DR actually dominated Max on pace, wouldn’t that be fantastic for the team? Why wouldn’t DR have the chance?
Max simply exudes something that has endeared him to the team, and one can understand why, looking at his potential. But as some around here love to point out, DR has somehow ‘beaten’ Max. Driver favouritism hardly seems a reason to leave a team when one keeps beating the supposed favourite, no?
5th August 2018, 16:21
Red Bull in some ways is the old McLaren. Just a few years ago they were world beaters.. Now with Honda there is a good bet they are going down.
Max Verstappen is probably the nastiest oppo.. er i mean teammate you can have. Team is obviouslly behind him. So overall he was in need of a move.
I bet Renault pays well/better than Redbull.
Very similar move to Lewis Hamilton, but at a lower level. Hmilton essentially had much better reasons performance wise.
There is a firm chance Renault will be nowhere near Mercedes dominant. Also Riciardo could still go to Ferrari/Mercedes/McLaren wherever.. Come 2020 if he needs too..
5th August 2018, 16:42
To compare RIC’s decision to HAM’s is quite different.
HAM knew Merc was working on the new spec engine for a couple of years. He also knew Merc had a head start on the others and in fact “helped” generate the new specs thanks to Bernie.
RIC’s move obviously has more to do with either getting away from VER, who is not a good teammate by any stretch of the imagination, or he feels it’s becoming another Vettel, Weber situation.
In any case, I’m sure he realizes a championship with Renault is very unlikely but his contract is for two years and then he may be able to get a seat with a more competitive team.
I think the big loser in this move is Renault. They had better come up with something better than VER and GAS or another young driver. It simply won’t work – they need a more mature pilot. Problem is there aren’t any available that would want that seat except Perez or Grosjean. Kimi will re-sign with Red as he is having a good year.
5th August 2018, 17:31
I think uer all missin the point. He would have never been WC at red bull. So why not get 35 mill instead of 4. To not be WC. No brainer I think. If he just wanted to be WC then why not lower his price. Its all about the cash not been WC.
5th August 2018, 18:30
It is easy, Ves is the future and Ric the past.
6th August 2018, 20:10
Red Bull is a soft drink manufacturer first and a race team second. Not to say the team isn’t interested in winning but to the guys who approve the budget it’s not as important. Third place on the grid with occasional wins keeps the car (and the Red Bull logo) visible. How often do you see a Red Bull livery on the screen when they are running third and fourth? Now, compare that to how often you see Mercedes when they are 10 seconds ahead in first and second? Winning championships is optimal but running lower but still top tier works for marketing purposes. Arguing with your engine manufacturer, fans discussing who the better driver is, which team member is going where all keep Red Bull the brand in front of people. Which works for marketing. As for Maxbastian Vettelstappen he is CLEARLY number one at Red Bull. Why has less to do with on-track results and more to do with (again) marketing. He is selling merch to the “Orange Army” which advertises Red Bull’s over-caffeinated glop which makes the marketing boys happy. He’s also putting fans in seats at under performing European tracks, which makes F1/FIA/Track Owners/Liberty happy. They obviously want their Wunderkind to succeed. They’ll be overjoyed if he manages to become Youngest Champion Ever. But running in third or fourth with Wonderboy still accomplishes the mission of Red Bull, the corporation.
7th August 2018, 12:38
yep, any news is good. Its all about the money. That goes for all teams btw.
6th August 2018, 21:00
RIC is a very good and solid driver, but I believe VER is slightly faster than RIC. If they both were driving for Mercedes in 2014, for sure VER would have won the championship, not RIC. Because there won’t be any obstacle in front of VER for him to hit and self distruct. :P
But the point is VER is faster than RIC in both qualifying and race.
And I am a Kimi fan, and I don’t like VER a lot, still I have to accept the fact, VER is seriously fast.
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