Felipe Massa has gained a crucial extra point in his pursuit of Lewis Hamilton in the world championship after Sebastien Bourdais was handed a 25-second penalty for his collision with Massa.
The pair clashed as Bourdais exited the pits after his final stop on lap 52.
Bourdais falls from sixth to tenth in the standings, promoting Massa to seventh and Mark Webber to eighth.
98 comments on “Bourdais gets 25s penalty”
12th October 2008, 8:57
lap 52 of 67 … what is excuse this time for “after the race” decision ?
wait and see how the race will settle and then just make some result … FIA rox :)
12th October 2008, 8:58
Surely Massa was at fault? The way I saw it, Massa made an error – but there was no need for any penalty as his punishment was contained within the incident – ie he spun and lost time due to driving into Bourdais!
12th October 2008, 8:58
I haven’t yet seen the video of this one..
Keith; please could you tell me a link?
12th October 2008, 8:59
This is the most unbelievable penalty yet. I am stunned.
12th October 2008, 9:01
hehe. I don’t care who wins the championship anymore – this is a farce of monumental proportions.
12th October 2008, 9:03
I was expecting this farcical decision as I expect most others were once I saw the ‘after the race
fixingdecision’ announcement! :p
12th October 2008, 9:06
How much more crooked can this ‘sport’ get in favour of Ferrari?!
12th October 2008, 9:08
Ok, this is ridiculous.
12th October 2008, 9:09
When I saw the incident, I didn’t konw they were up for position. When I did realise that, I thought Massa was indeed at fault. Sad for Bourdais that he got the penalty.
12th October 2008, 9:20
i say let it be.
seriously, it was like kovalainen/webber in spa or hamilton/massa in lap 2. i dont agree with these type of decisions but if those have been punished then this one should be too.
12th October 2008, 9:20
Hah! FIA once again is the strongest Ferrari fan!
12th October 2008, 9:25
It’s nothing like kova/webber or ham/massa. Bourdais was leaving the pits wasn’t he? I’d have to see it again to be sure, but what the hell was Bourdais supposed to do? Slam the brakes on and let Massa through? It was for position. And it’s unlikely he could even see Massa in his mirrors.
Maybe I’ll change my mind when I see it again but this decision is even more of a joke than the turn 1 one.
12th October 2008, 9:30
12th October 2008, 9:32
I despair, really I do. What a ridiculous decision. If anyone needed to be penalised for this (and I’m not convinced that they did) then it had to be Massa. Bourdais was ahead, fighting for position and on his legitimate racing line. Massa just wombled into him.
And, to top all that, I can’t believe that the incident that seemed to me to invite the most scrutiny – Massa’s incredibly dangerous move on Webber, straight across the hatched box that demarcates the pit lane exit from the race track – has not even been mentioned by the stewards. If a car had been leaving the pits at that moment there would have been an accident of aircraft style proportions.
This is yet another day on which F1 makes itself look rather foolish.
12th October 2008, 9:33
This is a very strange decision indeed. It was for position and MAS just parked it in the wrong place – very reminiscent of DCs antics actually.
Massa’s move on Webber was incredibly silly and dangerous. It should have been investigated. I despair of the current crop of title contenders, who don’t seem to be able to drive a tough but fair race. They’re like kids with powerful toys. (except KUB who seems to drive his own race nicely)
12th October 2008, 9:34
Oh, that’s just the last straw! Massa was at fault for that incident!
12th October 2008, 9:36
12th October 2008, 9:37
I wonder if Bourdais onboard camera shows that he made a slight mistake at turn 1 causing him to nudge Massa. From the view we saw during the race it looked like Massa was the one making a mistake. I am pretty stunned at this decision but need to see some alternate footage to be sure it’s wrong.
12th October 2008, 9:43
Massa / Bourdais incident…
12th October 2008, 9:45
Are stewards paid on a commission per penalty basis?
That would explain this spate of issuing penalties to any driver they can catch hold of?
12th October 2008, 9:50
There are some comments from Bourdais on autosport.com right now, which are, I think, spot on.
12th October 2008, 9:50
I have nothing to say, apart from to add my disgust at this nonsensical, and clearly very biased decision. I’ve had enough of this now.
12th October 2008, 9:57
What an utterly bizarre decision. I do hope the stewards have some good information and will share as soon as possible. But from Bourdais quotes, it implies it was just as we saw it, which makes you wonder what planet the stewards are on right now.
12th October 2008, 10:01
This is just incredible. First it takes 25 minut before Massas penalty was handed out, basically giving him 2-3 places for free while doing nothing for Hamilton since he was last anyway. Then this, handing him even more points. I’m just amazed that McLaren even have the motivation anymore to go on racing in F1.
12th October 2008, 10:01
This is ridiculous. This is worse than the Belgium fiasco, by quite some margin. What the hell are they playing at?
McLaren might as well just sit out the last two races and enjoy the Ferrari coronation as spectators.
More worrying, for F1 as a sport, this now means Massa needs to win the championship by seven points (this point, plus the six from Belgium) to avoid being seen as undeserving.
Why wasn’t Massa investigated for: 1) diving into the pitlane to overtake Webber; 2) causing Sutil’s accident in Singapore; and 3) gaining two places by overtaking with all four wheels off the track in Canada (a long time ago, but still). Not to mention Valencia!
There’s just too much of it to be “inconsistency” anymore…
12th October 2008, 10:02
ferrari international assistance
Keith Collantine (@keithcollantine)
12th October 2008, 10:02
I’ve only seen the external camera angle of the Bourdais/Massa collision, I can’t say for sure whether Bourdais did anything wrong until I see an onboard from his car. But it doesn’t look as though he did anything wrong.
12th October 2008, 10:06
It is interesting that he sort of keeps moving left towards Massa after the collision. Is that an extension of the normal racing line, did he pick up a nudge on impact, or did he, maybe, twitch the wheel a little? It’ll be good to see the onboard.
12th October 2008, 10:09
thats absolute ********!
Bourdais was on the inside as he had to be cos of the blend line and massa turned in on him!
conspiracy theorists have another meal on this one…
12th October 2008, 10:11
I can’t believe it! Really really odd
12th October 2008, 10:12
I’m sick of watching a good race and then feeling angry and disillusioned within a few hours of the finish.
12th October 2008, 10:12
Im a Massa fan… but i dont think Seb should have been penalised. It looked like a racing incident.. and should be left at that.. move on, no penalties, nothing.
However its too hard to judge from the only footage we get so i think once more footage comes through then it would be fair to comment. You cant tell at all how much room is left for Seb from the angle they give us.
But yeh, pretty silly penalty, this is racing after all.. this stuff happens.
12th October 2008, 10:18
Well its official… FIA really does stand for Ferrari In Assistance – is there really any reason for having the other cars on the track for the final two races, may as well just let Massa and Kimi drive round and round!
12th October 2008, 10:19
i dont even know what are you talking about.
massa was clearly in front of bourdais when the accident happened. in this case massa had the advantage because it was he who was leading bourdais at that moment. i thought in this case the one who is behind should let the other one go if there isnt enough place for both of them. bourdais has not done that.
thats the case, we can all agree on it – whether you are hamilton fans or not.
and if the accidents like that had been penalised before, than it was a right decision to do the same with this one.
12th October 2008, 10:30
This penalty was clearly Bourdais’ fault. According to the rules: “At any time while driving, when a Ferrari appears in your mirrors, wheather seeing it or not, all possible action shall be taken to fascilitate the immediate overtaking of that Ferrari around yourself. Failure to do so shall be seen in a very serious light by Ferrari International Assistance, herein after called FIA.”
This rule shall apply doubly strict for MacLaren!
Fed Up Fan
12th October 2008, 10:35
F1 is now a total joke! I will NO LONGER watch it and I hope many more people stop watching F1 too. After this farce of a race – there is NO POINT to F1 – it isn’t real racing anymore – if they are willing to give a penalty to the race leader who is only trying to regain his place in the first corner…. How many other drivers went off the race track in the first corner? Oh, yeah, Alonso said he went off the track at the first corner because he went wide(in the press conference after the race)…but I didn’t see his drive through penalty – nor any other drivers! F1 is no longer credible…and I hope many people stop watching it! I hope the manufacturers start their own F1 – I might watch that new and improved version of F1! For now ..I won’t watch it ever again!
12th October 2008, 10:44
Atticus, please watch the incident properly. Bordais had his inside wheel almost on the grass – and he is racing the other car… that’s what ‘motor racing’ is all about, or at least it was. Not “letting the other one go” as you put it.
12th October 2008, 10:46
Not to mention he actually left the racetrack to complete that move – something that I believe Hamilton was punished for in Spa.
I’ve been rolling my eyes at all the comments about Ferrari International Assistance, but today it strikes me that – as the great philosopher Homer J Simpson once said – it’s funny because it’s true.
Another question – there were a couple of other lower order drivers off the circuit at the first corner; how come the people that caused them to go off the circuit weren’t also given drive-throughs?
12th October 2008, 10:54
Presumably this 25 second penalty is a ‘drive through penalty’ and thus not appealable. Yet again the stewards have helped Ferrari and done so in a way which cannot be overturned, no matter how contentious the ruling. This sport is fixed, so anyone who expresses surprise at this kind of thing from now on should really watch something else.
12th October 2008, 11:12
Nope, Massa is in the clear on this one. He was on the racetrack throughout the maneuver, even if he crossed the pitlane exit – that only applies if you’re coming out of the pitlane.
For precedent, see Fernando Alonso’s pass on Mark Webber at Suzuka 3 years ago.
12th October 2008, 11:26
This penalty is wrong….
Unless there was something we are not aware of I fail to see how it could possibly be right…
12th October 2008, 11:49
Bourdais has now become the unluckiest driver in Formula 1 now.
12th October 2008, 12:20
Bourdais clearly infringed rule 192-5-b.
“no driver shall get close to, or challenge a ferrari driver and cause them to make a tit of themselves”
25secs?? Set the FiA dogs on him..
12th October 2008, 12:57
Shameless Disgusting FIA. The poor Bourdais’s career in F1 is already at risk.
12th October 2008, 13:34
Can stewards be bought? How much does one cost?
12th October 2008, 13:38
Yet again one wakes up to see a race result shamelessly manipulated and with Ferrari as the beneficiary. They are making it up as they go along and feel able to because mugs like me will keep on watching.
Well not any more.
I’ll probably watch to see if LH can get the title but next year I think I’ll be doing something else with F1 Sundays.
12th October 2008, 13:59
Ha Ha we love stirring up controversy, that’s our real job!!
12th October 2008, 14:08
Can someone please tell me what is going on? The FIA request that huge changes take place regarding aero packages etc in time for 2009 in order to ‘improve the show’; increase overtaking and so on. What difference will it make if, whenever anyone tries to pull a manouevre, especially against a Ferrari, they invariably receive a penalty. I have watched this sport since Senna and Mansell were dicing in the early nineties and I desperately want to maintain interest in the sport I love but, with each passing race, this is becoming increasingly difficult to do. Remove Ferrari and lets get back to racing
12th October 2008, 14:11
So much hysteria over such a routine incident. Starting with the Ferrari Intervention Association and then the reaction of all our comments.
None of this would be relevant if my driver, Hambone, had the patience not to attempt to win the race at the first turn of the first lap.
Max Mosley is consistently redirecting the sport from competitive racing (green intiatives, common everything) and needs to distract our attention by the antics of the regulators. Vince McMahon should be the next FIA president, at least they don’t have any pretenses in the WWF, you know it’s scripted and just go along with the show.
12th October 2008, 14:16
edit: just realised this was for position – i thought massa was trying to unlap himself on bourdais at the time.
12th October 2008, 14:19
***! How on earth is that right? It was even commented on at the time and afterwards by Brundle who said he couldn’t see Bourdais getting penalised. Massa cut him off, Bourdais had the racing line and he had cleared the pit exit lane demarcation line. How could he be in the wrong?
Anyway, somebody asked for a precedent so here it is….
Spa 2008, Hamilton penalised for tussle with Raikonnen. Look at the facts…. 1. Hamilton had the line going into the chicane… 2. There was a Ferrari involved… 3. F1 is corrupt…. 4. The Stewards are on drugs or blind or were watching a different race or are being paid a retainer by Ferrari.
Never thought I would side with a Frenchman but Bourdais has been mistreated although he has learnt a valuable lesson… never race a Ferrari in F1.
12th October 2008, 14:26
Where the stewards watching the race with their eyes or just using the force. Why didn’t they just give penalties to the other six drivers to give massa the lead. And not to mention the “sportsman like” ferrari mechanics cheering as Massa knocked Hamilton out of the race. I can’t remember the exact quote but after the race Massa said something like he has a good relationship with Hamilton. Well if I was him I shouldn’t be looking for a christmas card from him or Bourdais this year. This whole thing is just a farce. Not only that but it saddens me that this year’s championship seems as though it’s going to be decided by mechanical failure, human error and of course steward’s penalties, instead of great driving.
12th October 2008, 14:35
12th October 2008, 14:40
Here’s and interesting piece of fiction
12th October 2008, 14:41
I saw this in an internet site:
1) Overtaking a Ferrari is not permitted under any circumstances.
2) In the pit lane, a Ferrari always has precedence over other cars.
3) Any driver finishing less than 25 seconds ahead of a Ferrari will be penalized 25 seconds.*
4) If neither Ferrari finishes in first place, the stewards reserve the right to declare the result null and void (or to adjust it as necessary).
5) Only Ferrari drivers are permitted to use anything other than ‘designated’ parts of a circuit.
6) If forced off the ‘designated’ part of the track by a Ferrari, the guilty driver should immediately crash his car and return to the pits
6) Any driver or team appealing against any FIA decision in favour of Ferrari may be subject to a fine and/or the deduction of points.
*Subject to post-race adjustment by the stewards.
Justice does not live in F1.
12th October 2008, 14:44
This penalty sucks!
I don’t think that’s Bourdais’s fault!
I think it’s just a accident!
FIA Ferrari International Assistance
12th October 2008, 15:36
What the heck, I got to wonder what the stewards are thinking this year. Hamilton gets a penalty for makeing Kimi go to the right (I dont get that one). Massa got a penalty to for something (well sounds fair so far). I cant say about those two on right or wrong, but how was Sebass at fault. It looks like a racing incident to me. How dose the guy on the inside of the track cause the accident? I am not one for conspiracy’s but damn the record over this year sure seems to play in the Red’s favor. Just my 2 cents.
12th October 2008, 15:45
I just have to say one more thing. In America I hear fans complain about how bad NASCAR is a consitancy of the rules. I tell them watch a season of F1. I love the racing and the cars. I can handel the lack of passing and the domination of one car but come on get the rules straight. Just my 2 cents.
12th October 2008, 15:46
25 Seconds for Bourdais for racing his line and doing a fine job of it all race and Massa racing around like and idiot closes the door and runs into him and the GIVE BOURDAIS 25 SECONDS !!!
Why doesn’t the FIA change their name to Ferrari and get it over and done with.
They only gave Massa a drive thru for taking out the leader of the championship by putting for tyres of the track but a guy who’s keeping his line on the track 25.
I’m almost quitting this great sport because it is so biased, there are rules for Ferrari and there are different rules for everybody else. I just hope Massa does what he does best “choke” in China and Lewis wins it and rubs it in the FIA’S FACE. He’s black, he’s young and he drives a silver car.